In the Media - South Africans Doing Great Things

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Aubrey Masango: South African doing great things, Darren Cohen, General Manager at Legal and Tax, is here to talk about what they are going to be doing on Mandela Day. Darren, thank you so much for agreeing to talk to us. Really appreciate your time. We don't always speak to guys that talk about taxes on "South Africans Doing Great Things," but you are going to be doing something special on Mandela Day. Tell us a little bit about it.

Darren Cohen: Evening, Aubrey, and thank you so much for having me on. Good evening to all of your listeners. We are really excited about the campaign we're launching. Legal and Tax Services is an authorized financial services provider and a leading provider in the legal expense insurance space. We've been in business for 28 years. Part of our offering is providing legal advice through our enhanced legal team. We have around 20 in-house lawyers assisting our clients.

Our purpose is to be a companion to our clients, our broader community, and all South Africans. We're always looking for ways to achieve this. Our unwavering commitment is to ensure that everyone in South Africa has access to legal advice and assistance. We like to provide accessible legal support, bridging the gaps in access to justice and empowering our community. To date, we've assisted on more than 17,000,000 matters.

We launched an AI called My AI Lawyer as a gift to South Africa on Human Rights Day last year. We're trying to take that further and make access to justice very real for all of South Africa. Although we've launched it as a commercial operation, leading up to Mandela Day and on Mandela Day itself, we're going to open up access to My AI Lawyer for South Africans. This means they can go onto our platform and ask legal questions. On Mandela Day, we will provide unlimited access to My AI Lawyer, so you can ask as many questions as you want. We're really excited about it.

Aubrey Masango: You know, I'm just thinking about the relationship that South Africans sometimes have with the law and the idea of constitutionality. I have conversations daily with South Africans who are a little weary of the Constitution and the law and how it serves them on a practical level. As an organization offering legal advice to people who seek it, who would take up such an opportunity, and why would they be interested in having a conversation with an attorney? And not just an attorney—sometimes a virtual attorney, like an AI attorney. Who uses this kind of service?

Darren Cohen: So I think at one point or another, everyone will have a need for legal advice and assistance. Our experience shows that many legal issues are resolved when advice and assistance are accessible. To give you an idea, I looked at the 2022-2023 Legal Aid report, which indicated that almost 210,000 people received legal advice from them. This highlights the broad need for such services.

As I mentioned earlier, we have handled over 17 million matters. The need for legal assistance is very real. If you were to visit our call centre and listen to our legal advisors speak to people for just an hour, you’d likely leave in tears because people genuinely need help, and we are in a position to provide that help.

Aubrey Masango: Yeah, and are people asking for assistance because they are involved in a particular legal matter, or do you find that people are asking broader questions about the law just so they can get more educated?

Darren Cohen: I think it's a bit of both, but you have to remember that legal matters aren't always about litigation. We assist our clients with various needs, such as reviewing agreements like rental agreements or drafting cohabitation agreements. We also provide advice in situations like disputes with neighbours or on labour matters. It's a really broad spectrum of needs. While we offer legal expense insurance, there's a significant opportunity to assist people with advice and support. When people can access these services, they can truly protect what they love and fight for what matters.

In a country facing challenges like gender-based violence and exploitation, accessible legal services play a crucial role in protecting and empowering vulnerable individuals. This is not just a South African issue; it's a global issue. Goal 16 of the UN Sustainable Development Goals aims to provide access to justice for all, underscoring the importance of legal accessibility worldwide.

Aubrey Masango: Broadly speaking, what are the main issues that people deal with? You've mentioned gender-based violence, but in general, what occupies the minds of many South Africans, especially come Mandela Day and the services you'll provide?

Darren Cohen: Most of what we handle involves labour issues, family matters, civil disputes, and occasionally criminal issues. We don't typically handle business-related matters; our focus is on personal law.

Aubrey Masango: Okay. Let's move to the day when you'll be offering these services. What can South Africans expect? How do they get in touch with you?

Darren Cohen: Before I get into that, let me explain what My AI Lawyer is and how to access it. During our development, we found that over 90% of South Africa's internet users communicate daily on WhatsApp. Inclusivity was key for us, so we integrated My AI Lawyer into our existing WhatsApp service channel. It's also available through the chat feature on our website, legalandtax.co.za, and our Facebook channel, given WhatsApp’s connection to Facebook via the Meta universe. This means South Africans have legal advice at their fingertips 24/7—advice anywhere, anytime.

To connect with My AI Lawyer, simply message 071 526 8527 with the keyword AI. It will ask for your name and prompt you to ask a legal question. What's remarkable about My AI Lawyer is its versatility: it's digital when you need quick answers and human when deeper assistance is required. If you feel you need to speak with a human lawyer, you can request it, and we'll facilitate that interaction seamlessly.

We've handled over 80,000 questions with very high satisfaction ratings, measured by the number of users requesting to speak with a human lawyer. This underscores the effectiveness of the platform we've built.

What sets My AI Lawyer apart is that it's designed with our core values of companionship and care. When you ask a question, it provides a compassionate and human-like response, unlike generalized AI or bots.

We've trained it on South African law, so over and above, you know, asking your legal question on a more generalised sort of AI where you may get an Americanised sort of answer or something based on European law, you're going to get something that's an answer that's specific to South African law.

Aubrey Masango: So, this platform has been customized to understand the nuances of South African law, am I understanding you correctly?

Darren Cohen: Yes, exactly. We've built specific guardrails around it, and what's more, we update it weekly. This includes inputting updates based on South African legal developments and refining our responses based on client queries. What truly sets it apart is its robust security on the Microsoft Azure platform, ensuring top-tier data protection. We're especially proud that our tech partners, Legal Interact, have won the 2024 Microsoft Global Change Makers Award for their innovation. Lillian Barnard, President of Microsoft Africa, has expressed optimism about its potential to uplift the African economy.

Aubrey Masango: How extensive is the assistance you provide? For instance, if someone approaches with a legal issue like a dispute with their landlord, how far can you help and when does cost become a factor?

Darren Cohen: Access is a continual focus for us. Leading up to Mandela Day, users can ask up to four legal questions. On Mandela Day itself, questions are unlimited. Users can even instruct our AI lawyer to draft agreements or legal letters, which can be emailed directly. For legal advice beyond that, it enters our standard channels. While we can't provide representation at this stage for clients with our legal expense products, there are further options available under that pillar. Ultimately, our goal is to make legal knowledge accessible, resolving issues through accessible advice and systems.

Aubrey Masango: I'm always curious about these initiatives. For those dealing with legal or tax issues, how can they reach out for assistance?

Darren Cohen: Absolutely. Even right now, people can message our AI lawyer on WhatsApp at 0715268527 with the keyword "AI" to start asking legal questions instantly. We've also enhanced our tax services, assisting with returns and providing comprehensive support through our website.

Aubrey Masango: How does your organization benefit from offering these services?

Darren Cohen: Our mission is to be a community companion, providing support through our legal expense insurance products and enhancing client interactions. We focus on alternative dispute resolution and making knowledge accessible through initiatives like our Information Hub, available to all South Africans on our website.

Aubrey Masango: How do users engage with the AI lawyer? Is there a specific approach to get the best results?

Darren Cohen: It's intuitive and designed to understand various queries, even with errors. Users can interact naturally, probing for more detailed responses based on their needs.

Aubrey Masango: When did you decide to launch this initiative? What inspired it, considering its impact on South Africans needing legal assistance?

Darren Cohen: This initiative isn't about profit but about making legal and tax advice accessible, especially on Mandela Day. We're passionate about supporting our community and spreading awareness of these services.

Aubrey Masango: Could you share the WhatsApp number for the AI lawyer once more, please?

Darren Cohen: Certainly. The number is 0715268527. Simply send "AI" to that number. Alternatively, visit our website legalandtax.co.za and navigate to the My AI Lawyer page for more details.

Aubrey Masango: What motivated your organization to embark on this venture?

Darren Cohen: Sir, our CEO, Benji Porter, lives and breathes giving back to the community and making access to justice real. Along with Rafael Siegel, the Director of Legal Interact, they conceptualized this initiative in December 2022 or January 2023. We decided we were going to make it happen. Within a few months, we had it up and running and integrated with our existing WhatsApp channels. We're very entrepreneurial at heart and believe in making these sorts of things come to fruition very quickly. Over the last year, we've rolled it out to all of our clients and are in the process of extending it to third parties to make it accessible to their bases. We're looking for many more third parties to collaborate with.

Aubrey Masango: Access to justice is a big conversation. It’s a very important topic because the relative stability of any country really lies in how much people believe in the justice system of their country. In other words, there needs to be real consequence management when people feel aggrieved by criminality. Give me your sense, as someone who works in the legal space, how much do people believe in the law in South Africa?

Darren Cohen: I think there's a lot of trust. Sometimes the wheels of justice move slowly, but when justice is served, it makes a significant impact. There have been notable cases in the media this week that have taken a long time but are now reaching conclusions. There is access for people through the courts, but there's an understanding gap that needs to be bridged. Access to justice involves knowledge, assistance, and advice where people can understand their rights and responsibilities. That’s where we come in to help bridge that gap.

Aubrey Masango: How do South Africans compare to other countries in terms of their relationship with the law and the justice system? How much do they trust our legal system?

Darren Cohen: The cornerstone of our justice system is our Constitution, which I would argue is one of the strongest in the world. It helps drive an inclusive society and protects all South Africans, even when things go wrong. While South Africa has many problems, it’s also a country full of opportunities. I have a lot of faith in our justice system, which is why I work in this field.

Aubrey Masango: Based on your experience, do you think people feel a sense of justice after going through the legal system?

Darren Cohen: I believe so. Although there are issues of access, many people do feel justice is served. We assist our clients with just causes and see their cases through to fruition. We also focus on alternative dispute resolution, engaging with third parties to resolve issues through advice and assistance before taking legal action.

Aubrey Masango: How busy do you expect to be, and how much capacity have you prepared for this initiative?

Darren Cohen: The amazing thing about AI is its scalability. While there are concerns about AI’s impact on jobs and the economy, we see it as a job creator and opportunity maker. We're excited to see what this technology brings and believe it will allow us to scale effectively.

Aubrey Masango: Is this opportunity just for the legal fraternity, or can AI technology make professional services available to a broader portion of society? How will the digital divide affect this?

Darren Cohen: Technology democratizes access to justice. Research shows the average South African has more than one phone, and we've built our service into WhatsApp because it's widely used. People only need to know how to send a WhatsApp message to access it, which opens up opportunities across various industries.

Aubrey Masango: Do you think people will need training to understand how to ask questions that unlock the best answers from the technology?

Darren Cohen: If done correctly, prompt engineering on the back end should make the user experience seamless. People shouldn't need special training to use this tool. We spend a lot of time training our AI to answer questions within our framework, making it user-friendly for the mass market.

Aubrey Masango: What should people do to start using this service?

Darren Cohen: Normally, we charge for our AI lawyer, and we recognize the cell phone number registered to your device. For the period leading up to Mandela Day, you can ask up to four free questions. On Mandela Day, July 18th, the service will be completely unlocked, allowing unlimited questions. Simply send "AI" to the number 0715268527, and it will guide you through the process. You can also access it via our website or Facebook page.

Aubrey Masango: Will you be able to track how many people use the service and the value derived from it?

Darren Cohen: Absolutely. We curate the AI on a weekly basis, updating it with the latest legal information and reviewing user questions and AI responses. Our legal experts ensure the AI provides accurate and helpful answers. Additionally, our website offers a wealth of information, including articles, videos, and infographics, which are valuable resources for self-education.

Aubrey Masango: Some people are asking about the gender of "my AI lawyer." Does it have one?

Darren Cohen: Not really. When developing the user experience, we decided it would be more of a "they" rather than assigning a specific gender.

Aubrey Masango: People are also asking about the specific details for Mandela Day. Could you repeat the process?

Darren Cohen: Log on now and start asking questions. You can ask up to four free questions now. On Mandela Day, July 18th, you can ask unlimited questions. Simply send "AI" to 0715268527. It’s easy to use and integrated with our WhatsApp channel. Our website and Facebook page also provide access to the service.

Aubrey Masango: What if a large number of people use the service on Mandela Day? Are you prepared for that?

Darren Cohen: Our system is built on enterprise-level technology, using the Microsoft Azure framework. It's designed to handle a high volume of questions. While anything can go wrong, we believe our systems are robust and can provide the necessary support to offer access to justice to many people.

Aubrey Masango: This is a great initiative, Darren. I hope South Africans get great value from it. Thank you for sharing this with us.

Darren Cohen: Thank you so much.

Aubrey Masango: Once again, Darren Cohen from Legal and Tax. Please repeat the number for the AI service.

Darren Cohen: Sure, it's 0715268527. You can also find it on our Facebook page and website.

Aubrey Masango: I just received a message from Tebogo Mataba who tried the AI lawyer and said it works fantastically. Great feedback, Tebogo. Thank you.

Darren Cohen: I love that. That's amazing.

Aubrey Masango: Thank you for your time, Darren.

Darren Cohen: Thank you so much.

Aubrey Masango: Thank you for your message.

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